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Math Forum / Mathematics / Mathematical Logic / October 2008



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An example of nominalism

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Frederick Williams - 28 Oct 2008 13:36 GMT
"Some time later Lesniewski told me that
    he had found the required axiom sitting
    on a bench in the Warsaw-Saxon Park."

From page 78 of Lukasiewicz: _Symposium: The Principle of Individuation
I_, Aristotelian Society, supplementary volume 27.

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 The noise of life begins again
 And ghastly thro' the drizzling rain
On the bald street breaks the blank day.

herbzet - 29 Oct 2008 02:57 GMT
>      "Some time later Lesniewski told me that
>      he had found the required axiom sitting
>      on a bench in the Warsaw-Saxon Park."
>
> From page 78 of Lukasiewicz: _Symposium: The Principle of Individuation
> I_, Aristotelian Society, supplementary volume 27.

1) Those axioms are notorious slackers.

2) One should summon a police officer to hustle them off.

--
hz
translogi - 29 Oct 2008 14:30 GMT
> >      "Some time later Lesniewski told me that
> >      he had found the required axiom sitting
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> --
> hz

What is so wrong about being a slack axiom?
What can the police do about an innocent accepted-as-true slacker?
Were do they belong?
Maybe we then know where  all provable (axioms are always provable)
but slack (still wondering what you mean by it, unuseful? un
meaningful?) belong

maybe we shhould start an actiongroup be axiomkind.
(oxfam just started an advertisment sery be humankind here)

(But I am also Just joking )

Free GL |- [o]([o](p->[o]p ) -> p) -> p
([o] p <=> ([]p & p))
herbzet - 30 Oct 2008 08:36 GMT
translogi wrote:

> > >      "Some time later Lesniewski told me that
> > >      he had found the required axiom sitting
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> but slack (still wondering what you mean by it, unuseful? un
> meaningful?) belong

Instead of earning their keep supporting axiomatic systems,
these slacker axioms just keep sneaking off to lie around
the park, feed the pigeons, panhandle, etc.

Basically, they're a public nuisance.

> maybe we shhould start an actiongroup be axiomkind.
> (oxfam just started an advertisment sery be humankind here)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Free GL |- [o]([o](p->[o]p ) -> p) -> p
> ([o] p <=> ([]p & p))

--
hz
Frederick Williams - 30 Oct 2008 11:04 GMT

> What is so wrong about being a slack axiom?
> What can the police do about an innocent accepted-as-true slacker?
> Were do they belong?
> Maybe we then know where  all provable (axioms are always provable)
> but slack (still wondering what you mean by it, unuseful? un
> meaningful?) belong

I suppose a 'slack' axiom might be a redundant one.  Well-known examples
are Whitehead and Russell's (p v (q v r)) -> (q v (p v r)) shown to be
redundant by Lukasiewicz and Bernays, and Frege's (p -> (q -> r)) -> (q
-> (p -> r)) shown to be redundant by Lukasiewicz.

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He is not here; but far away
 The noise of life begins again
 And ghastly thro' the drizzling rain
On the bald street breaks the blank day.

translogi - 30 Oct 2008 19:31 GMT
On 30 Oct, 10:04, Frederick Williams <frederick.willia...@tesco.net>
wrote:
> > What is so wrong about being a slack axiom?
> > What can the police do about an innocent accepted-as-true slacker?
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>   And ghastly thro' the drizzling rain
> On the bald street breaks the blank day.

Thanks
so a slack axiom <==> an axiom that is not independent from the other
axioms in that system.
But even this is a bit discutable, suppose that axiom A is not
independent from B  and C, and B is not independent from A and C. and
all theorems folow from A & C and from B & C  Is A slack or is B
slack?
herbzet - 30 Oct 2008 20:36 GMT
> > What is so wrong about being a slack axiom?
> > What can the police do about an innocent accepted-as-true slacker?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> redundant by Lukasiewicz and Bernays, and Frege's (p -> (q -> r)) -> (q
> -> (p -> r)) shown to be redundant by Lukasiewicz.

No, no, that's not it at all.  If you'll recall, it was a /required/
axiom that was found lollygagging around the park.

Who cares about redundant axioms, as long as they just keep out of
the way and refrain from littering up the place.

--
hz
David C. Ullrich - 29 Oct 2008 12:03 GMT
>     "Some time later Lesniewski told me that
>     he had found the required axiom sitting
>     on a bench in the Warsaw-Saxon Park."

Heh-heh, that's very funny.

(What's "nomimalism"?)

>From page 78 of Lukasiewicz: _Symposium: The Principle of Individuation
>I_, Aristotelian Society, supplementary volume 27.

David C. Ullrich

"Understanding Godel isn't about following his formal proof.
That would make a mockery of everything Godel was up to."
(John Jones, "My talk about Godel to the post-grads."
in sci.logic.)
Frederick Williams - 29 Oct 2008 13:04 GMT
> >     "Some time later Lesniewski told me that
> >     he had found the required axiom sitting
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> (What's "nomimalism"?)

It is the view that what seem to be names of universals or abstract
objects don't actual name a corresponding reality.

So, for example, while there are white things there is nothing that the
word "white" names, and while there are solitary things there is nothing
that the word "one" names.

Quine was a nominalist of the there-are-no-abstract-objects variety.

Since Lesniewski and Lukasiewicz were both logicians, I though it was
not off-topic (and in any case sci.logic seems to be full of nonsense at
the moment).

> >From page 78 of Lukasiewicz: _Symposium: The Principle of Individuation
> >I_, Aristotelian Society, supplementary volume 27.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> (John Jones, "My talk about Godel to the post-grads."
> in sci.logic.)

Signature

He is not here; but far away
 The noise of life begins again
 And ghastly thro' the drizzling rain
On the bald street breaks the blank day.

Frederick Williams - 30 Oct 2008 10:50 GMT
David Ullrich asked:

> > (What's "nomimalism"?)

Oops, silly me, I answered the question "What's nominalism?" instead of
the question 'What's "nominalism"?'.

Ha ha, well done.

Signature

He is not here; but far away
 The noise of life begins again
 And ghastly thro' the drizzling rain
On the bald street breaks the blank day.

David C. Ullrich - 30 Oct 2008 11:59 GMT
>David Ullrich asked:
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Ha ha, well done.

Rats - I wish I could take credit for that, it would be funny.
Alas in fact I meant to ask the first question, not nearly
clever enough to be making a joke about the distinction.

David C. Ullrich

"Understanding Godel isn't about following his formal proof.
That would make a mockery of everything Godel was up to."
(John Jones, "My talk about Godel to the post-grads."
in sci.logic.)
herbzet - 30 Oct 2008 21:27 GMT
> Quine was a nominalist of the there-are-no-abstract-objects variety.

I'm not sure that Quine is quite the nominalist poster boy.

At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willard_Van_Orman_Quine#Set_theory
it says:

 "He flirted with Nelson Goodman's nominalism for a while, but
  backed away when he failed to find a nominalist grounding of
  mathematics."

At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Goodman#Nominalism_and_mereology
it says:

 "Goodman, along with Stanislaw Lesniewski, is the founder of the
  contemporary variant of nominalism, which argues that philosophy,
  logic, and mathematics should dispense with set theory. Goodman's
  nominalism was driven purely by ontological considerations. After
  a long and difficult 1947 paper coauthored with W. V. O. Quine,
  Goodman ceased to trouble himself with finding a way to reconstruct
  mathematics while dispensing with set theory -"

In Quine's "Mathematical Logic" revised edition of 1951, Quine says in
section 22:

"Once classes are freed thus of any deceptive hint of tangibility,
 there is little reason to distinguish them from properties ...

 Discourse in general, mathematical and otherwise, involves
 continual reference to to abstract entities of this sort --
 classes or properties.  One may prefer to regard abstractions
 as fictions or manners of speaking; one may hope to find a
 method whereby all ostensible reference to abstract entities
 can be explained as mere shorthand for a more basic idiom
 involving reference to concrete objects (in some sense or
 other).  Such a nominalistic program presents extreme
 difficulty, if much of standard mathematics is to be really
 analyzed and reduced rather than merely repudiated; however
 it is not known to be impossible.  If a nominalistic theory
 of this sort should be achieved, we may gladly accept it as
 the theoretical underpinning of our present ostensible reference
 to so-called abstract entities; meanwhile, however, we have no
 choice but to admit those abstract entities as part of our
 ultimate subject matter ...

 Our working ontology is thus pretty liberal.  But in mitigation,
 it may now be said that this is the end; no abstract objects
 other than classes are needed -- no relations, functions,
 numbers, etc., except insofar as these are construed simply
 as classes.  In addition to concrete objects we need recognize
 only classes having such objects as members, then classes whose
 members are drown from the thus supplemented totality, and so on.
 This is presumably all the ontology that is needed for discourse
 in general; certainly it is all that is needed for mathematics ...

 It would even be possible, compatibly with the projected formal
 developments and indeed with the whole of mathematics, to repudiate
 concrete objects altogether -- to recognize just classes, each of
 which has classes in turn as members or else no members whatever ...
 This exclusively abstract ontology has little naturalness to
 recommend it, but there is no need here to reject or accept it."

I don't know whether the above paragraphs were written in the 1940
edition (pre-Goodman paper) or for the revised 1951 (post-Goodman)
edition.

--
hz
 
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